responses gone wild

Got this comment on the last post, then got carried away, so I'm posting both the comment and my rather excessive reply:

lucy stern said...
We are all effected by the capital gains taxes, many of our retirement accounts will be effected by them. Estate Taxes, haven't we already paid taxes on this before. When they were collecting estate death/taxes before, many families were loosing their farms or homes because of these taxes.

If you want a bigger piece of the "pie" go out and earn it. Many of the "poor" people don't pay any taxes and as you said the rich already pay 75% of the taxes, what do you want?

Only God can help us of Obama wins this presidency....he will have everyone in the poor house.

Taxes help nations run, without them nations die. They're like chores, and you need to do them whether you like it or not, otherwise your house ends up a mess. If you think your tax money is wasted, change what it's spent on. But dont whine like a teen-ager about how much you hate government, while electing a bunch of guys who run on a platform of Government-Doesnt-Work, and who then go on to (self)fulfill their own (and your) prophecy.
And any family losing anything to estate taxes has both more than $1 million in assets, and a lousy accountant. My parents blew I dont know how much money setting up an unnecessary trust to hold their assets and avoid the "Death Tax", even though they werent even halfway to its threshhold.

And by the way, in what way do I not "earn" my money now?
Is it because I'm not in the financial sector? Did they "earn" their enormous salaries even as the economy collapsed due to their decisions? Did they "earn" the golden parachutes?
Is it because I'm not college educated? Whoops! I am. I'd be more so (maybe then I'd "earn" my keep), but tuition's gone up so much I can no longer afford to go to school.
In what way does my Boss "earn" the 5 times my pay (plus company car) that he currently makes? Is he 5X smarter? Does he have 5X the education? Does he work 5X harder? If he disappeared tomorrow, would it hurt the company more than if myself and 4 fellow workers did the same?

Here's a display of the way wealth is distributed in America (not totally accurate, but close enough for now):

Assume there are 100 people who have $100 to split up. No one expects it to be divided perfectly evenly at $1 apiece, but everyone involved expects that some basic fairness will be used in the process that will split up the money.

Now let's say the $100 winds up being divided as follows:

1 person gets 4 people get 5 people get 10 people get 20 people get 20 people get 40 people get	$38.10 each $5.32 each $2.30 each $1.25 each .60 each .23 each 1/2 cent each

This is how our economic system has distributed the wealth of our country. It's so far from any type of fairness as to be laughable, were it not a direct cause of certain segments of our society lacking adequate resources for food, clothing, shelter, medical care and other necessities, let alone any amenities of a beyond-subsistence life. (props to The Rational Radical)

The "innaccuracy" I mentioned of the example above, by the way, is that during the Bush years, the tax cuts in place currently have redistributed the wealth so that the 5 people at the top have a few cents more, and every one else has a bit less. By the way, how much of that half cent do you suppose is needed to get by? For that matter, how much of that 60 cents is required? What the hell do the rich do with the rest of their money? And are they really that much more competetent with it than the rest of us would be?

Make no mistake, the people who do the work get paid less than the people who hire them not because they deserve less, but because the people who hire them hold all the cards - the job, the pay and, most of the time, the opportunities. Those holding the wealth control the wealth, and they are never eager to share.

"the rich already pay 75% of the taxes, what do you want?"

I want a government that is not involved in a conspiracy to collect the wealth of the nation into a few hands. I want a nation that spends its money on infrastructure and education, that rewards true investment, i.e., putting money into creating things that create wealth, rather than rewarding speculation and bloated, oversized corporate behemoths who respond slowly and late to crisis (if at all) and need to be bailed out because they're "too big to fail". I want a government that cares about all of its people, not just those who can afford to participate in the "free" speech of campaign contributions.

This nation has quietly been in a financial down-mode since the beginning of the Bush years, with the only people not feeling the pain being those at the top. As the economy continues to drop, it's not the time to raise taxes, at least on most of us.
There are a few though, who've been feeding well at the trough. They've benefitted handsomely from the Bush years, it seems only fitting that those who benefit the most should also pay the highest taxes.
Dont you think?

And if not, why not?

You want to be taxed less on the money you "earn" from capital gains because you're "investing" in America? Then invest in a start-up company. Buy new stock, either new issue or an IPO. But dont tell me that you're "helping" America grow because you're putting your money on that horse race we call Wall Street. It's gambling, it's speculation, and the only people it's helping are your brokers and, if you're lucky (and/or very patient), yourself. And yes, that includes retirees, including my own sweet mother. Why should you pay less money in taxes for the money you "earn" than I do for the money I "earn"? Because you made it via gambling rather than work?
You want to help America with your investment? Put your money into something, anything, that allows us to stop sending billions of dollars in oil purchasing and military aid to the middle east. That's the type of investing that ought to be rewarded, not buying a real cream-puff from the Merrill Lynch Auto-Rama, hoping to sell it a few miles down the road for a sweet profit.

The "poor", by the way, pay "taxes" every day. They pay it when they buy anything, because sales taxes have gone up to pay for things that tax cuts arent funding. The same goes for every single increased usage fee at public pools, the DMV, any kind of licensing or permits, toll roads, safety inspections, cell phone charges, internet charges, and the latest local outrage: an extra clean-up fee charged to anyone from out-of-town who gets involved in an accident - expect that one to spread, and thank slashes in tax revenues for it.
And dont even get me started on what the nation's crumbling infrastructure and underfunded schools, librarys and police forces cost ordinary folks.

"Only God can help us of Obama wins this presidency....he will have everyone in the poor house."

(I'll assume that's an "if" rather than a "of". )

As opposed to now, you mean?
I'm curious though; how exactly he (or perhaps, He) will put us in the poorhouse? I mean, let's go nuts and assume the worst: Obama's a whacked-out socialist, and he somehow takes all the money in the country and redistributes it evenly. Look at the chart up there again. If the impossible should happen, then 4 out of 5 people will still be better off. Is that so bad?
Especially when you consider that many people are so stupid, and many more are so corrupt, that within 20 years it'd look a lot like it does now anyway.
But that's no reason not to try.

Finally, Lucy, this one's specifically for you: If you're objecting to Obama's tax plan, and you're in that top 25%, well, tough luck. You certainly have no sympathy for me, I fail to see why I should have any sympathy for your "burden".
If you're not, you need to stop drinking that kool-aid McCain's serving, and you especially need to stop spiking it with gin, because you will get a tax break under Obama. Let the rich folk take care of themselves - it's what they're best at anyway.
.Incidently, here's a pie chart of wealth distribution from 1998 - bear in mind that the sizes of the top 5% slices have gotten larger, while the others have gotten smaller since then. Notice, though, that even in 1998, the top 10% of the nation held over 70% of the wealth


Okay, </rant>.



for now